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Ask the Patriarch 262
If there was a GOD and he showed you proof

from: Cat

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Hi again:

I'm very open-minded, but I follow no man, only my morals. I just need a non-believer to answer these questions if you don't mind.

If there was a GOD and he showed you proof, say an undeniable sign that he was in fact real, right before he releases his wrath on the evil in this planet, would you care then? Would you say thanks to him for the very breath he gave you and apologize for being ignorant towards his very existence?

How would you feel if you made a nice home for people you loved, gave them everything they needed only for them to deny you were even real and then call you names, and you only had their best interests at heart?

So to rephrase, if it was proven to you that you have a GOD, would you say thank you and apologize?

As for science well what is beyond this big bang thing? What created that if it were true, why accept this with no proof?

Science won't get to the beginning of creation as it is beyond human comprehension, though this is accepted. GOD is also beyond human comprehension but he is denied. Zeitgeist almost had me during my quest for the truth, but even the sun needs a creator, wouldn't you agree. The sun is blinding after all.

I fully accept that you don't believe and I don't blame you. It's caused through man's absolute ignorance of moral standards. To be righteous in the bible, means to be morally correct. All these morally wrong believers think they will be saved because they believe in Jesus but ignore right and wrong, making the LORD look evil.

The bible states very few will be saved and there are billions of believers in the world, none even willing to accept they might have it wrong. Clearly someone is, otherwise we would have just one faith and not varying different beliefs stemming from the same abrahamic books. They deny human error and say each others faith is incorrect and are adamant theirs is right and they won't hear this.

Also if the bible were just a story, the writer was extremely intelligent and gave himself no credit for it, so he gained nowt.

Cat :)

The Patriarch replies:

I'll try to deal with all your questions.

But you should be aware of this. As an agnostic, I am willing to consider the possibility, however remote, of a deity who may have had a hand in initiating the universe, who may occasionally have subtly influenced the development of the universe in ways undetectable to science, and who may even reward and punish in some kind of afterlife. But, I would expect such a deity to behave rationally and morally by independent standards. The various versions of the Abrahamic gods all fail this test.

Consequently, I cannot be as nice about your God as you might hope.

Would I care if I found out a god (whether I had believed in him previously or not) was about to release his wrath on Earth? Of course I'd care. But I'd care in the same way if I'd just found out a 10km diameter asteroid was going to crash into the planet next week destroying all life. I'd care as much if a mutation in the Ebola virus was going worldwide killing everyone, and no hope of a cure. I'd certainly care that all of humankind would be suffering a pointless death regardless of whether due to a psychopathic deity - and that's the only appropriate term for a supposed god who blindly destroys his creation which "he saw that it was good"- or due to natural disaster.

Would I thank God and apologize? No. If he created me to destroy me, then he does not deserve my thanks any more than Mr. Bill and Spot owe Mr. Hands any thanks. And as he gave no credible evidence of his existence and no meaningful way to choose him over any of the other purported gods, then my disbelief is nothing to apologize for. If your God exists and is going to kill us all, he owes all of humankind a humble apology. Along with a thorough reconsideration of his intentions.

How would I feel if I'd looked after people and they denied my existence? I'd be disappointed with human nature, and probably would withdraw my support. But unlike the existence of God, there is adequate evidence for my existence so there is no reason to deny me. Unlike your God, I wouldn't threaten to slaughter them in a jealous rage over their disbelief.

What is beyond the big bang? I don't know. Science has not found the answer yet, though there are a number of hypotheses. But not knowing is no reason at all to claim without evidence that some god did it. Further, there is no reason to absolutely assert that this knowledge will always be beyond the possibility of scientific discovery.

Zeitgeist? Zeitgeist is one of the most dishonest and misleading so-called documentary films ever made, exceeded perhaps only by Ben Stein's Expelled.

The sun needs a creator, wouldn't you agree? No. The local conditions of the universe about 4.6 billion years ago led to the formation of our sun. It was not created. The sun was formed through natural processes.

Disbelief is caused through man's absolute ignorance of moral standards. Even the Pope has now recognized that non-believers behave morally. Moral standards are separate from belief. In many ways it is the obvious absence of moral standards in the behaviors of various gods in various scriptures that cause people to question their existence. As far as the Bible is concerned, your God's unjust actions - against Adam and Eve - against the entire world in the flood story - in the tormenting of Job to win a bet - in his directions for genocide to the Israelites - in his arranging the death of his son - and in the pointless extermination to come as described in Revelation - all of these point to a deity's absolute ignorance of moral standards.

Very few will be saved and there are billions of believers in the world, none even willing to accept they might have it wrong. And it seems to me more probable that they are all wrong than that a very few lucky ones stumbled across the right interpretation. Given the multitude of interpretations of just this one text (and there are many other potential scriptures other than the Bible to follow), no-one owes any god an apology for getting it wrong.

If the bible were just a story, the writer was extremely intelligent. I don't think anyone claims there was one writer - there were many writers, each with a different story to tell, each with a different perspective on god, a perspective which changed over time. If there had been just one writer aided by one good editor, perhaps the numerous discrepancies would not be there. The contradictions might disappear. Perhaps the two different Genesis creation stories might even be replaced with something more closely resembling what we know from science.


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